En cliquant sur Accepter , j'accepte l'utilisation des cookies telle qu'elle est dcrite plus en dtail dans la Politique d'Utilisation des Cookies de Houzz. Kerdi Membrane not sticking to cement board - John Bridge If I go the kerdi membrane route, do I still need to tape the joints before installing the kerdi membrane . Additionally, if the cement board isnt waterproof, it can also cause mold and mildew issues, as well as dry wall damage from the moisture seeping through. Modified vs. Unmodified Mortar With Kerdi Membranes To properly seal a cement board for a shower, its important to first properly prepare the surface. A quality underlayment will also serve as a waterproof barrier between the subfloor and the tile surface. Needless to say, the drywall turned to mush. Building Panel: Price $ 119 00 $ 202 06 $ 279 00. Installing cement board involves placing the boards atop a layer of thinset adhesive, a process known as bedding. Additionally, the use of modified thinset with KERDI could lead to cracks and other issues down the line as the modified thinset can shrink and pull away from the KERDI membrane over time. How do you show the depth of a hole in a drawing? Yes, it is recommended to waterproof cement board, especially if it is going to be used in exterior settings or in places where it will be in contact with water. Not everyone knows how to do mud and lathe it's so old school plus it wears you out, ive been a setter for 27 yrs and I have yet to go back to one of my showers I installed using perma base or durock, with a liner, i have started using waterproofing such as redguard or aqua-defense. This is confusing since Kerdi Board has no Kerdi on it. But a mortar bed does have advantages. In . And we are using a drippy mixture, it slides off the trowel. (3ft-3in wide)Or will the Kerdi membrane (with seams taped with kerdi band) prevent each board from moving . If you can avoid that, the demo would be ~easy enough to maybe have some friends who'd work for beer come over and help you knock it out. The Schlter system tends to be more durable than a cement board, but it also depends on the particular application and the weather. Whether or not you need a Kerdi membrane is a factor of use. The curb doesn't have to be any wider than a 2x4. Step 2: Determine the room's center. First, its super lightweight compared with the rest. If you ensure that silicone goes in and that the thin-set and grout do not bind there you should be good to go. Let the mortar dry for 24 hours then test the shower. I imagine we could share some good stories. For all the substrates listed in this Handbook (e.g., gypsum board, cement backerboard, etc. It is designed to form a waterproof layer between cement board and tiles, helping create a watertight installation. I still wet the walls first. This is the traditional tile backer. What type of thin-set mortar should I use when installing Schluter-KERDI? Using modified thinset on KERDI can be tricky and in some cases, it can cause issues. Your Get free, zero-commitment quotes from pro contractors near you. Cement board is the industry standard when it comes to tile substrates and the most preferred among professionals when installing porcelain or ceramic tile. Cement boards are typically capable of withstanding larger amounts of water, while a Schlter system is designed to hold up well only in dry conditions. Additionally, you can use KERDI-BAND around corners, seams, and joints to help with a waterproof installation. Do I have to use Kerdi tape with Ditra membrane? One of the major benefits of opting for Kerdi Board over cement board is the ease of installation. You just need a hammer and wonderbar for the walls. LONDON. You peeled it off? Once you have determined the type of thinset, its important to also consider the weather conditions during installation. Additionally, it is important to waterproof cement board before tiling, as the grout and tiles can help keep the board watertight. Here's how to get it right the first time, If you've got a steady hand, a few easy-to-find supplies and patience, you can install a tile backsplash in a kitchen or bathroom, Step 4 in swapping your tub for a sleek new shower: Pick your waterproofing materials and drain, and don't forget to test, Work with your contractors and installers to ensure a safe, stylish curb that keeps the water where it belongs, Get the benefits of a time-honored ritual without firing up the coals, thanks to easier-than-ever home steam systems, Landscape Architects & Landscape Designers, Outdoor Lighting & Audio/Visual Specialists, Out With the Old Tile: 8 Steps to Prep for Demolition, Convert Your Tub Space Into a Shower Waterproofing and Drainage, Steam Showers Bring a Beloved Spa Feature Home. Find the website that's made specifically for you. Prime first to create a flat, uniform surface that is free of dust, grease and other debris. Yes, Hardie board needs to be waterproofed. Keep in mind that most tile setters err on the side of caution and brush a waterproofing membrane on top of cement board when it is in wet areas like showers or tub surrounds. Various products can be used to waterproof shower walls such as water-resistant drywall and cement backer boards. Kerdi Membrane Over Plywood ThePlywood.com If he did the framing for the shower, then in order to measure for it correctly, he would need to know how thick the tile is so that he can avoid exactly this problem. The cement board needs to be clean, free of debris, and dry. Once the adhesive has been applied and has had time to properly cure, then the KERDI membrane can be applied to the wall. Tile Shower SurroundCement Backerboard Location? Schluter Kerdi on regular drywall - GreenBuildingAdvisor BTW the older Kerdi thread referencedwas excellent. One of the company says they are going to apply kerdi membrane on the drywall, then tiles onto the kerdi membrane, and as such as cement backboard would not be required. While cement board and grout are not waterproof, Kerdi is and can even be directly installed over drywall. Step 4: Place the Tile. Cement board is readily available and relatively inexpensive (about $10 for a 3 x 5-ft. sheet). As a contractor, I have been using Kerdi since it came out. If you preorder a special airline meal (e.g. What's the difference between a power rail and a signal line? The type of bonding mortar used to apply KERDI must be suitable for the substrate and must penetrate and engage the membrane fleece. Allow the primer to dry completely before proceeding with the KERDI installation. It's a lightweight polystyrene board faced with Kerdi that comes in various thicknesses that you can use in place of drywall or cement board. FRC board tends to be more moisture-resistant than gypsum board and is best suited for outdoor projects such as showers or tub surrounds. A.Sean Gerolimatos, technical services manager for Schluter Systems, responds: With a few exceptions, unmodified thinset mortar is required for setting ceramic and stone tile over Kerdi membranes (800/472-4588, www.schluter.com ), as well as for bonding overlapped seams and connections to Kerdi drains. The major drawback to cement boards is their weight, as they are incredibly heavy and can be difficult to cut. Yes. 120 sq feet including the floor. In general, modified thin-set mortar is not recommended to set ceramic and stone tile, including large format tiles, over the KERDI membrane. Will use the Schluter Shower system. Once this is done, continue the installation by following the directions for the particular Kerdi product being used. Depending on your project and the specific cement board you are using, you will want to select a thinset appropriate for both.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[468,60],'remodelormove_com-large-leaderboard-2','ezslot_15',158,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-large-leaderboard-2-0'); The two primary criteria to help guide your selection are the type of cement board you are using and whether you are installing it indoors or outdoors. Need help liner vs liquid membrane question. I have used kerdi, and I have applied it over cement board. Kerdi is not a user friendly product, and when you shrink your working time down it is downright stressful. If any is found, wait a few more hours and then re-inspect. Thanks Paul! This product is available in 3/16", 3/8", 1/2", 5/8" 3/4", 1" 1-1/2" and 2" thicknesses, allowing for a wide variety of installation options. Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4HjHT6_cUo, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEt6irjJCI0, My master suite addition & full bath to 1/2 bath renovation. If cement board had been used, most likely the damage would have been much less that what I have to deal with now. Yes, Kerdi membrane can be installed over plywood. They are absorbed into the surface material and help keep moisture away from the substrate surface. All it takes is the right preparation. Step 1: Measure the area. ), Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain, Finite abelian groups with fewer automorphisms than a subgroup. My floor tiles are 2" x 2"." - Lisa Jasper No - you can not use Kerdi Board on the floor. There's a really great manual (with diagrams) that makes this all easier to understand. For the floor, he should've put a mortar bed, then a membrane that goes over the curb, then another mortar bed. Step 6: Choosing the Next Tile. Like the example above. I posted a plea for help and Mongo and Bill both gave me good advice. How long should I wait after painting on the Redgard before I try to reapply the membrane? It is important to overlap the edge of the membrane so that it covers slightly more than half of the drywall behind it. My idea is to block in and install the tub in the existing corner, erect the new wet wall, and use hardi-backer to shim the wall out over the tub flange, then apply kerdi over the whole thing.Does kerdi take offense at being installed over hardi? Since my guys and I will be doing this for the first time next week, I 'd like to take advantage of your 'learning curve.' Kerdi does admit that you can use cement board. Cement board is a heavy mess compared to drywall, and drywall is a heavy mess compared to Kerdi Board. And by 'booking the Kerdi' I mean we put it in the bathtub, sprayed it with the handshower, then booked it (just like wallpaper). Kerdi Board is expensive, but I can justify it because it saves time, and it's a joy to use. We apply the thinset the recommended trowel, can't remember what size off the top of my head, in small sections and by the time my husband hands my the piece of membrane the thinset is not skinned over but certainly dry. x 5-ft. and 3 x 5-ft. sheets of cement board are sized for efficient use around bathtubs and showers. Kerdi board vs. Membrane vs. Other for Shower - DIY Home Improvement Forum This will prevent water from entering from behind the membrane, and will provide a more secure waterproof layer. Plus, if you use the mold and moisture resistant drywall, it will be extra insurance against mold. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-1','ezslot_24',166,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-1-0');If cement board is not waterproof, it can negatively impact the integrity of the tile that is installed on top of it, and can lead to a variety of issues. Kerdi 3 ft. 3 in. The boards come in three-foot by five-foot and four-foot by eight-foot panels, sized for efficient use in bathrooms. Putting this stuff on walls is difficult and time . The drywall's back side fails, and it's just as bad or worse than it was on the tile side. You have to seal every little hole in the floor so the underlayment doesnt seep into spaces below. Will be replacing tub shower combination with tiled shower in my home. The core isnt waterproof, but it can withstand getting wet without falling apart, so even if your waterproofing system leaks, the board will stay intact. We are DIYers who have already remodeled one bathroom successfully, but this is our first time using The Schluter shower system. Do You Need Uncoupling Membrane Over Concrete? - On Secret Hunt Yes, it is possible to put Kerdi over regular drywall. The grid lines on the surface are incredibly helpful for installation and making neat cuts. First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. With cement board as a substrate, the key is to ensure proper installation of the membrane. I always install it over cement board or backerboard, never over drywall, even blueboard or the mold resistant greenboard. Then cement, sand and water are mixed together to a crumbly consistency and floated over the lath to form a flat surface. link to How To Organize A Bathroom Closet. Using Kolmogorov complexity to measure difficulty of problems? Kerdi's systems are fairly reputable. DIYers on this forum seem to have nothing but problems with Hardi. RedGard can be used on a wide range of interior and exterior surfaces. I just a few weeks ago put kerdi on top of hardi-board in my shower and it was PAINFUL! The gridlines printed on the surface are beneficial for the installation process, also allowing for quick, neat cuts with a utility knife. Since KERDI is impervious, it does not deprive the mortar of its moisture. #1 - Backer board has nothing to do with HD or any other big box. I want to mount a cast iron bathtub, but not pull down my 1905 plaster and lath. Following the instructions for the product being used and ensuring that all of the necessary steps are followed will help to ensure a successful installation. First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. Personally, I like standard drywall. . DensShield is one common brand. We sponge water onto the cement board. It also helped me to work in smaller sheets. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. It doesn't matter but you absolutely need to use both a substrate and a waterproofing membrane. That means that you do not have to rely on a surface membrane or worry about the board failing if the core is exposed to water. Regardless, cement board is a great, trusted tile substrate that will work well on both walls and floors. The big issue with cement board is that the thinset will skin over really quickly. Can you remove tile from Kerdi membrane? First, you would waterproof with your favorite liquid waterproofing membrane of . Cement board (cbu) is not waterproof, but is not damaged by being wet. This creates a strong, waterproof tile backer that also functions as an uncoupling membrane. If your going to do the job do it right, and give professional advice pls. Kerdi on shower curbs - JLC-Online Forums The main types of cement board you could encounter are Fibre Reinforced Cement (FRC) board and gypsum board. Too little, and the kerdi will never show you gray, no matter how you sweat. To waterproof Hardie board, you should choose a quality sealer that is designed for use on cement-based sidings. Contact us: 888-472-4588 We installed cement board on the walls, and today when we attempted to apply the Kerdi membrane we could not get it to adhere. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. ".1) is is okay to use kerdi board instead of ditra on the floor? How to Install Kerdi Membrane - YouTube This makes Kerdi Board suitable for a wide variety of interior applications, including kitchen countertops. Should I use Kerdi membrane or cement backerboard? Send us an email: , What type of thin-set mortar should I use when installing Schluter, Using a Prefabricated Shower Tray and Ramp. It is a topical waterproofing layer that is put over the substrate to keep water from getting to the wood frame and nails. The foam core surrounded by synthetic cloth on both sides and adhered with resin glue is. That would tell him where the edge of the framing needs to be. Cement board and grout are not water proof, if there's Kerdi no moisture is ever going to be able to get behind it. . Continuing Education for Architects & Designers. When installing Schluter Kerdi Membrane over cement backerboard: Should I use Alkali Resistant Mesh Tape and thinset on the seams of the backer board (for long term durability to prevent each board moving independently thus preventing cracking) prior to installing the Kerdi membrane. Kerdi Membrane Over Greenboard (Is It Recommended?) When it comes to applying KERDI, however, it is advised to use a regular thinset that includes portland cement as its main component. "..2) the kerdi band isn't stuck flat -- the edges in some spots are wavy. It costs more but it;s worth it for the ease of install IMO. In normal residential use I wouldn't worry about it. Some being easier to work with than others. :/. We are still most comfortable with full plumber's pan over the curb, including glue-on preformed corners, and also a second layer (usually Kerdi but can be paint-on) on top of CBU wrap over curb. When it comes to using thinset with Schluter products, the Schluter-Systems website recommends using unmodified thin-set mortars specifically designed for use with Schluter membranes. One thing I do like fibercement (Hardie) for is when I need thin strips of cement board. When screwed to the framing, thin strips of cement board fracture more easily than thin strips of fiber-cement. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. When applying the thin-set, it should be applied in such a way that it fully fills any empty space between the Tile and Schluter product and is solid enough to support the weight of the tiles being installed. As such, many homeowners and professionals find themselves wondering whether Kerdi Board or cement board is the better tile substrate. When having to put it up on the wall or measure it for size, you will find that you can get the exact measurements you need without much trouble. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. We think it is the cement board (Durock) sucking the moisture out of the unmodified thinset. For all the substrates listed in this Handbook (e.g., gypsum board, cement backerboard, etc. As far as the tile/prep work, you are right that he is shifting the blame. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Shower walls construction made easy with Kerdi-Board panels. - La Tuilerie On top of that, fiber cement board is even more brittle than standard cement board, so you have to be extra careful to keep screws at least an inch from the edge to avoid breaking the board. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. 120 sq feet including the floor. A good rule of thumb is 24 hours per inch of thickness, then one more day on top of that to be sure. I will say that to is easier to put the membrane over drywall than cement board. Furthermore, if another trade, such as the shower glass installers, makes a mistake then you'll be . I'm guessing he put a 2x6 across for the curb? ;). Schluter Kerdi 108 Sq Ft Waterproofing Membrane - amazon.com Kerdi membrane is a waterproofing material that is designed to be used in wet areas such as bathrooms and showers before tiles are installed. Should I use Kerdi membrane or cement backerboard? Hardi is definitely a "thirsty" substrate but will work, even without a primer of RedGard. Then you can apply a thin layer of KERDI-FIX to the board, the membrane over top, and use a rolling pin to press it down and ensure a secure bond. This means that even if your waterproofing system leaks, the cement board will remain intact. Kerdi Questions and Answers - Kennedy Kitchens & Baths Schluter says that the Kerdi membrane and tile can be installed over standard gypsum wall board without any problems. modified thin-set mortar is not recommended to set ceramic and stone tile, including large format tiles, over the KERDI membrane. liquid waterproofing (redgard) over durock cement board - bathroom This will help to extend its lifespan and make sure it looks its best for years to come. Retired Moderator - Theatre Guy (and computers). Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? Aquadefense is approved by IAPMO for use as a shower pan liner, but be sure to check your local building codes, as some areas of the country still require the PVC liner. We tried adding water to the thinset, we tried using a larger notch trowel, but nothing seems to make the Kerdi stick. Thanks for contributing an answer to Home Improvement Stack Exchange! I used to "trust" the Kerdi and drywall until I had a shower that the valve broke inside the wall cavity four years after being put in. The shower tray eliminates the need for a mortar bed. Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? Is it Sinful to put Kerdi over Hardi-backer? - Houzz The cement board can also become weakened and start to flake away when it absorbs moisture, causing ugly spots and patches to start appearing on the wall. Once its applied, the last step is to follow up the waterproof coating with a waterproof sealant. What are the differences between "paperless drywall" and "cement board"? Cross your fingers and hope it's all OK. Not the best Kerdi Showcase. Hello D Zak! Good luck with your project. That was not a fault of the Kerdi, or the installation. This thread is 9 years old and it's the Hardi board that's thirsty not the Kerdi. x 60 in. that's home depot homeowner installation method. http://www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/Shower-System/KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/Schluter%C2%AE-KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/p/KERDI_SHOWER-KIT, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup. Portland cement-based unmodified thin-set mortars are dependent on the presence of moisture for hydration in order to gain strength. Yes, KERDI membrane will stick to cement board. When it comes to installation, a Schlter system is typically easier to install than a cement board, and it also allows for more design freedom as it does not require a traditional waterproof layer. To create a watertight shower assembly, we installed Schluter's Kerdi membrane over the drywall, just as we would for tile.Write by:. There is a product called Kerdiboard you might want to look into. You troweled on thinset combing it out then pressed the Kerdi into place? . You are telling someone "to have" an artistry that not only takes art skills, knowing how to mix mortar for different situations, and a good amount of practice. You provide the pitch during the tile set. . Cement board is a mineral-based board, usually 30 inches by 60 inches, that is used as a lower, dimensionally stable surface for installing ceramic tile, porcelain tile, or stonework. Start by cleaning the cement board with a mineral oil soap; this will help reduce mold and mildew growth throughout the life of the shower. Do you have any pictures? Schluter approves their waterproof Kerdi membrane over drywall. Such membranes typically come in a brush or a roller form and can help create a durable barrier against water infiltration. Hardie board is thirsty, but that's way too fast. Houzz Pro: One simple solution for contractors and design pros, surfer thanked Avanti Tile & Stone / Stonetech. . Take care to cut the KERDI membrane to the appropriate size and apply it to the wall, ensuring that it is properly adhered and that the edges are sealed with KERDI sealant.

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